tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8624873013842943245.post60358901081553636..comments2012-07-13T18:32:57.485-07:00Comments on The Cranky Critter: Jefferson Not a Fan of Fetishists EitherCranky Critterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05509666202091121125noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8624873013842943245.post-5436793385109123272011-01-11T10:10:06.702-08:002011-01-11T10:10:06.702-08:00If I wasn't clear, let me state that I see you...If I wasn't clear, let me state that I see your point. Jefferson was talking about amendments as a specific mechanism for allowing the constitution to keep pace with changing times.<br /><br />To my knowledge, he didn't claim that this was the sole reasonable method.<br /><br />His general unqualified statement is that institutions must advance to keep pace with the times as our culture and understanding evolve.<br /><br />So, obviously he recognizes the need. He did not, as you point out, explicitly approve the mechanism that I've related his quote to. Cheerfully agreed.Cranky Critterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05509666202091121125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8624873013842943245.post-91087393778285831262011-01-10T10:19:54.319-08:002011-01-10T10:19:54.319-08:00While it may stand well as a general statement, it...While it may stand well as a general statement, it loses meaning when taken out of context. He meant what he said <i>in a specific context</i>. Placing it into a different context actively changes the meaning -- that's the trouble with using any quote in isolation from its origins. Compare and contrast with, say, this other Jefferson quote:<br /><br />"A Bill of Rights is what the people are entitled to against every government, general or particular, and what no just government should refuse, or rest on inference."*<br /><br />Was he "fetishizing" the Bill of Rights there? You bet! What I'm saying is that Jefferson's <i>specific</i> meaning in the quote you used was that the Constitution itself had to be amendable to keep up with changing times, not that it should be subject to some evolving re-interpretation <i>ala</i> the "living Constitution" doctrine of creative judicial interpretation ... or inference. <br /><br />Point being that the quote has specific meaning, and losing that by taking it as a general statement changes that meaning. <br /><br />For a really fun in-context take on Jefferson, read his letters from the time of the Conctitutional Convention, which include the "Tree of Liberty" letter.<br /><br />[*: Letter to James Madison 20 Dec. 1787]Tullyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03842067230152580405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8624873013842943245.post-9979153274601696212011-01-09T23:02:10.477-08:002011-01-09T23:02:10.477-08:00I see your point,m and that;s worth taking into co...I see your point,m and that;s worth taking into consideration.<br /><br />But surely you can;t claim that because he's speaking generally, then it can't be applied specifically? <br /><br />I'm not saying that this quote grants permission to stretch the meaning of words to whatever you want. That's moronic.<br /><br />All I am saying is that Jefferson meant what he said. Either he though institutions needed to keep pace as the world evolved, or he didn't.<br /><br />And he did.Cranky Critterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05509666202091121125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8624873013842943245.post-9184999622392918212011-01-09T18:59:35.292-08:002011-01-09T18:59:35.292-08:00Tully - How could this statement by Jefferson be t...Tully - How could this statement by Jefferson be taken out of context? Especially in the manner in which you suggest? It stands on its own merit, no further context is necessary. Jefferson was not a careless man in his use of written language.<br /><br />"As that [progress of the human mind] becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths disclosed, and manners and opinions change with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also, and keep pace with the times."Derek Linkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06616477329930618784noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8624873013842943245.post-42227600774516230012011-01-09T14:07:11.729-08:002011-01-09T14:07:11.729-08:00Care to place that Jefferson quote in context? He ...Care to place that Jefferson quote <a href="http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/P/tj3/writings/brf/jefl246.htm" rel="nofollow">in context</a>? He was speaking generally on the government, and in that section specifically of the reasons for having the amendment process in the Constitution. He was certainly NOT supporting the stretching out of shape of the meanings of the Constitution by legislators and judges to "keep pace the times." Quite the opposite.<br /><br />For real fun, read the section on public debt and taxation.Tullyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03842067230152580405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8624873013842943245.post-63910226930528778712011-01-07T19:42:00.571-08:002011-01-07T19:42:00.571-08:00Thanks for the visits, guys. Where'd you wande...Thanks for the visits, guys. Where'd you wander by from?Cranky Critterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05509666202091121125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8624873013842943245.post-78147434774798916102011-01-07T18:39:13.052-08:002011-01-07T18:39:13.052-08:00Good quote from JeffersonGood quote from JeffersonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8624873013842943245.post-87364527166772887072011-01-07T16:40:48.635-08:002011-01-07T16:40:48.635-08:00Well said! I'm about to subscribe. I'm a...Well said! I'm about to subscribe. I'm also cranky and I only pay attention part of the time.Derek Linkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06616477329930618784noreply@blogger.com